DISCREET SPACES 

Softball
Winkie

Winkie: We’d go to tournaments and people - some people would come up and ask you “were you?” you know, just straight out. You know, and you’d tell them “no”, and they respected that. Or you’re distracted like this where the pitcher is flirting with you when she’s pitching the ball, you know.

Lauren: Did that happen? 

Winkie: Yes! You know, you’re like “oh my god, oh right! Okay stay focused here.”  You know -

Lauren: What’d she do?

Winkie: Oh! Oh, oh. Oh kisses and something, and then she possibly, you know, this one had said something to me before the game and so you’re like. (pause) “Just throw the ball, you know, just throw the ball.” (Lauren laughs) And this lady had a pitch that was like, you really had to watch her. So you’re - you’re having to focus and she’s out there – yeah. Or you get on the base and the coach – the somebody from – “hey sweetie” or something, you know you’re like (takes breath) “Focus.”

YMCA
JR

JR: Where this building is here the YMCA used to be right across the street from it. 

Lauren: In this parking lot here? 

JR: Yeah, that was kind of an active place. It had lodging there and everything, at the time.  

Lauren: Okay. And a lot of gay men -

JR: Yeah.

Lauren: - hung out there?  

JR: Yes. It was kind of known as a pick-up place. 

Lauren: Oh, really?

JR: Yeah.

Lauren: If you- so if you went to like work out or something like that, you could pick up people?  

JR: Yeah. You used to meet them - a way of meeting people you know.  

The Library
Avery

Avery: And I would periodically go the library. The only way you could find anything is go the card - the old fashioned card catalog, which we didn't have the Internet, and find - you would go under sex change and see if they had anything or change of sex, because that's the only two listings they had. 

Lauren: Was it scary to go do that at a library? 

Avery: It was as scary as hell. When I was at Georgia and found that -Transsexual Phenomenon. I accidentally discovered that when one. It was in the science and math library, which is separate from the main library, which unfortunately happened to be right across the street from the ROTC building. And when I discovered it, I think I was my second or third year there, and so by then I was beginning to rise in rank a little bit in the ROTC program, and of course, I had the scholarship. And that book was one of the books that you had to go to the counter. You had to leave your I.D. at the counter, you could only check it out for two hours at a time. And of course, the whole time I’m there, the first thing is I think there must be video recording me or taking my picture or they must know exactly who I am. They must know that I'm in the ROTC across the street. They had no way of knowing any of that crap, but that's the irrational stuff that goes through your mind. So I would go over there and I would read the book two hours a time. And even after I became the ROTC cadet commander there, I would still go over there and then read it periodically, but still thinking everybody in their freaking brother knows about this.

Dance Classes
Bill

Bill: You know, cause when I came back to Springfield, of course, I didn't really know any gay people and I always want to be a solid gold dancer. So I decided I'm going to take dance classes. (John laughs)

Lauren: Okay.

Bill: And I came in to Springfield. I signed up for a dance class and the owner of the dance company, Gary Geis School of Dance, he of course was gay and he had a friend that took dance lessons there, and so I went with a girl that I had known from high school and they knew right away I was gay. And we became friends.  

Lauren: They like picked you out?  

Bill: Oh, yeah. They knew right away, you know, the first night I was there.  

John: It's called gaydar.  

Bill: Yeah, you know. They go well "He's a sister," you know. So I would go back and would keep taking lessons and we really became close friends and we were friends until Gary passed away about three years ago. We were friends probably for about 35 years and that's who I I would go to the bars with. So they introduced me to Dayton and Columbus bars.

Parks
JR

JR: You can’t turn there, but that’s the famous Peanut Pond.

Lauren: Legendary (laughs)

 JR: Yeah it’s very legendary. Back in the day we’d all meet there and have a party. You know we’d bring beer and pop. But you don’t have beer back in those days either.

Lauren: So you’d sneak it in?

JR: Yeah.

Lauren: So this was a, this was a hook up spot right here?

JR: Oh yeah, oh yeah (Lauren laughing). You park your car here and you make people come up and park their car beside you. If you pull up and then someone walks over and says, “Got a light for a cigarette,” And the next – you know you talk – and the next thing you know one thing leads to another. But there has been some, whatcha call, busts where they act like they were gay to see if they could pick you up there. They always had to have two private detectives that picked you up, couldn’t be just – one just couldn’t say “well he was gay.” There had to, you know, be something, a touching or something you know, of that nature.

Lauren: But you could get arrested for that. For flirting?

JR: Mhm, yeah. If you just didn’t touch them you were okay, or you didn’t flash yourself you were okay.

Lauren: Did you know anybody who got arrested.

JR: Oh yeah. Several school-teachers.